tv Prime News HLN July 27, 2009 5:00pm-7:00pm EDT
it the highly anticipated michael jackson toxicology report expected anytime now. what will it tell us about the demise of the king of pop. >> plus, new reports his mother, ex-wife, very close to striking a deal on the kids. could there be a break-through in the custody dispute? and right now, an intense search for an 8-year-old boy last seen at his apartment playground. cops are frantic, draining a pond. where is little robert manwill. you're a huge part of the show. call in, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. you can e-mail us cnn.com/primenews or text us at
hlntv. start your message with the word prime. your chance to be heard. controversy, opinion, your point of view. this is "prime news." welcome once again. mime mike galanos. new reports coming in on the ugly fight over michael jackson's kids it . we've talk board of directors it for weeks. the rumors the family may have made a $4 million payout offer to debbie rowe. everyone's happy. no money in the deal. we're talking about michael jackson. his fortune, money's not a part of the deal? we'll take your calls. 1-877-tell-hln. joining me to talk about this, kim serafin, in touch weekly, family law attorney vikki ziegler. want to listen katherine jackson's attorneys londell miller talking about basically everyone's working together. let's listen. >> we have been working on an agreement, and i want to say that the parties have been very
responsible, debbie rowe, her lawyers, mrs. jackson. they've been very thoughtful, caring and very prudent. we do believe we're close to reaching an agreement, and the swirling speculation is just swirling speculation. the agreement about custody is not a money issue. michael and mrs. debbie rowe had their agreement prior to his passing. that is not on the table. that's not what we're dealing with, and despite a lot of the public kind of inquiries, that is not what's happening. kim serafin, are you buying that, no money involved here? >> you would initially think that money would be involved. that's all the speculation about. however when debbie rowe's lawyer was fighting back at that claim, he was very specific about saying it had nothing to do with money. now we have katherine's lawyers saying it has nothing to do with money. they're both being very specific it doesn't have anything dew with an additional settlement other than what debbie rowe and michael had prior to his death. so maybe this is about
visitation, maybe this is about who else will take care of the kids. maybe she wants a role in the lives of the kids. >> our attorney vikki ziegler, as you listen to that, was there any wiggle room where you could slide some money in or was it cut and dry no money involved? >> i'm shocked. i can't believe there's not going to be money exchange the in this deal. it smells of a rat. there's always ways. i think her attorney said to the post this is not about the child support, it's about spouse report. she got a reported $8.5 million settlement when they divorced in 1989 so i don't know why spouse support would be raised in this debate. i think what's happening here is perhaps they want to keep debbie rowe from speaking to the public. so perhaps in this global settlement, perhaps she'll exercise her parenting rights, perhaps she won't. it vikes me as strange because she really hasn't over the last several years but maybe at michael's passing, she feels the
need to somehow be reintroduced to the children. i find it hard to believe. something isn't right. >> exactly. and you have a better line on that being a lawyer than i do. something doesn't seem right there. let's talk debbie rowe, biological mom of the first two. so she's got some say i would imagine, vickie. but we go back to, it can she legally cash in again? you've mentioned some of the money she's already received through all this. >> yeah, she actually can. you really can't barter for children. they're humans. at the end of the day, she's got a pay day to go away and abrogated her rights, they were reinstated by the supreme court. she certainly south carolina say listen, i'll never give my parental rights away like my attorney said but i won't try to see the children. give me some money. he's worth a lot of money and dithis for michael as she previously testified in court. so yeah, absolutely, there's room. there's always room for a money deal. >> i'm sure. kim, when we talk about a deal
the waylon del mcmillan is talking about, it sounds like it could be close. what are we talking about here? >> again, they delayed this hearing a couple of times already. it seems like they really are working together. most people said that debbie rowe could make a claim and kris osborn come out very forcefully. anytime soin a friend about e-mails, she's pushed back hard. it seems like maybe this one facet in the michael jackson, there will be fights specially as more comes out about dr. conrad murray, maybe this is one time they really care about the welfare of the kids. i really think that will everyone really does care about the welfare of the kids. >> speaking of the kids, are we laying out in this deal who's going to take care of the kids?
what about rebbie or janet, are we hashing that out, do you think? >> it's interesting, because the lawyer was asked about janet's involvement because that's widely reported. sources had said michael wanted agenda play a role. definitely you see these kids have a relationship with the extended jackson family. you saw that at the memorial. and again, katherine jackson is almost 80 years old. it would be a great thing to get some of the extended family in. maybe that's part of what she is discussions with debbie rowe have been about, as well. >> we'll ask vickie how does the court sift through all that. will the younger relatives like agenda and rebbie have a say in all this? we'll talk toxicology, as well. we'll take your calls at 1-877-tell-hln.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln, keeping you posted on the fallout after the arrest of professor henry louis gates. you'll hear the 911 call made a neighbor, what she told police, and race was mentioned but now how you think. president obama inviting both professor gates, sergeant crowley together for a beer at the white house. 1-877-tell-hln is the number. back to michael jackson, custody is an issue. really, a lot of different facets we're talking about here. also a toxicology report that could come downy day. like to take your calls. sean tell in texas, your thoughts here? >> caller: yes, i just feel that will debbie rowe shouldn't have a right to the kids because she gave them up in the beginning
for money and in spite of what all we think about the jackson family, they still appear to be a close-knit family and those kids have adjusted to them, and i don't think that they should be removed from the family. >> chantelle, thanks for the call. our callers keep coming back to that, debbie rowe, yes, she's biological mom but she seemed to have given up a lot of what she has to say and involvement in their lives through the years and just shows up, kashz in, leaves, cashes in again. that's the way we're seeing it. what is legally going on here? >> what's happening here is she doesn't have custodial rights, she has parental rights which means she can exercise visitation with the children, whether it's supervised or not, we don't know yet. and until the children are emancipated in california, 18 or until they go to a four-year college education that, debbie
rowe could visit with these children. i don't know what terms she can discuss the welfare, health of the children. but she still has those parental rights. a judge can terminate those rights but at this point, no judge has done that yet. that's why she has the say. >> what about real quick, stay with you, vickie, janet, rebbie, who makes the call about the involvement or how much -- how involved they'll be in raising the kids? is that something katherine, she will be the main guard yawnian, how does that work out? >> ultimately, if there's a package custody deal right now they would be saying katherine would be the main guardian and if she became ill, they would be a secondary guardian, perhaps one of the aunts in the family. she can be there no matter what abdon't have to be specifically designate the but you need a secondary to make sure someone's taking care of the children's welfare, going to school, making sure their needs are taken care
of. if they don't and go to court, they have to request that a forensic expert take the testimony and determine who is really going to be the best custodian of the children. >> kim, it seems like all sides agree they don't want joe involved in raising the kids. >> that definitely does seem to be the case that he would not be involved. he was left out of michael's will, clearly there was not a good relationship between michael and joe and apparently joe lives in las vegas, he doesn't live with katherine. he should not be involved. even when he was on larry king with talking about whether there were reports that the jackson three would be touring as a group, he stayed far away from that issue, even said something to larry, i'm not going to go there. maybe he's been lectured, don't talk about your involvement with the kids because that would probably be a bad thing to say he would be involved. >> joseph even in florida, your comment or question here? >> caller: yes, was the dna done to prove whether debbie rowe is
the biological mother in the children doesn't look anything like her and we don't know if michael used her as a surrogate. >> kim, is that one on the table at all or the question of whether or not she's the biological mom? >> i don't think so. i'm not a legal expert but i believe she, because her name is on the birth certificate, she is the mother of these two kids. that's of prince and paris, not of blanket. that's another issue, that they don't want to split up these three kids. they have each other right now. they have their relationship with the jackson family and all of that goes into play, even though debbie rowe had said initially lortedly initially she would take on blanket too, that doesn't seem to be the case any more. but the three kids, keeping them together is very important. >> like, quick dna will prove if she's the biological mother of the two eldest children. i don't think that's being contested. we heard perhaps she was a surrogate but i don't believe
that to be true any longer. >> kim, we mentioned toxicology. give us the latest. is it any day now? >> it looks like that, yeah. it was about a week and a half agthey said two weeks. we're expecting it very soon. probably at this point they know exactly what the issue is and want to make sure they have everything together. the packet is, this is such a high profile case, they want to make sure they have all the specific details. as rumors are now swirling about dr. murray, they want to make sure they're making sure they have all the information. >> ladies, thank thanks so much. coming up, a story that has us so concerned. a missing boy from boise, idaho. last seen friday at his apartment playground. the fbi is involved. what happened to that little guy? call in with your thoughts, 1-877-tell-hln.
once again, invite you, you're a huge part of the show. we love hearing from you. the number 1-877-tell-hln. shoot us an e-mail. here's the website, cnn.com/primenews or text messages, hlntv, start your message with the word prime. and here's a new way to join the conversation. become a fan of "prime news" on facebook. we'll give you the behind the scenes stuff. me, richelle, the "prime news" team. how we put things together, what we're working on, angles we're taking. want to hear from you. become a fan of "prime news" on facebook. for more info, go to c n cnn.com/primene cnn.com/primenews. right now, hundreds of people are searching for an 8-year-old boy in idaho. this little boy varnished from a playground near his family's apartment on friday. police are pleading with the public for tips. the fbi has been brought in. we want to know, where is little robert manwill. joining me now to talk about this, jen wall from kabci in
boise. give us the latest. what do we know? >> boise police have expanded the search beyond robert manwill's neighborhood to canals and open fields. as of this morning, they still have no credible leads they say. >> no credible leads. so, is this an amber alert yet or not? and if not, why not? >> reporter: boise police say they did submit paperwork to issue an amber alert as soon as they learned he went miss. a state official told me because it is not considered an abduction, his disappearance does not meet all the criteria to issue an amber alert, state officials said that. >> is there any indication there was an abduction. >> reporter: police say not at this time. >> where was he last seen, jen? >> robert was last seen at his apartment here in buys i. a family member and nonfamily member saw him around 9:30 p.m.
friday night with his step dad, his mom and he disappeared shortly after that. >> where was he at 9:30? was he out and about? where did they see him? >> reporter: they say they saw him leavinging his apartment. >> okay. we've heard reports that he wanted to go to a party and is that factual that that's why he would leave to go to some party at 9::00 at night, 9:30 at night? >> police were reporting that earlier this weekend. as of now, i believe they're say that is not true anymore. >> that is something that cannot be verified. is his family talking and if so what, are they saying at this point? >> reporter: i've been talking with robert's dad charles manwill all weekend. today he told me police did ask him not to speak anymore just for the security of the case. they have an point the family aunt to be the official spokesperson for the family now. >> jen, what did he tell you over the weekend?
what kind of information was he giving you? >> reporter: obviously, he's very concerned about the whereabouts of his son. he says he's a typical 8-year-old little boy. he only weighs 50 pounds. he an loves annoying his sisters, playing outside. very friendly. right now he's very, very concerned and said it's not like his son robert to just disappear. >> he's not a kid known for getting in trouble and running off or things like that? >> reporter: no, sounds like he's a good kid. >> what about community reaction? what are folks saying? >> reporter: boise is an amazing community. people are very worried. all weekend, people have been driving up in their cars asking what can i do, where can i go. neighborhoods are passing out flyers. hundreds of people. >> what is next in this investigation what, are authorities telling you? >> reporter: authorities say they're just going to keep searching. the fbi is now involved, and they're just, police detectives and volunteers just looking
everywhere they can look. there's helicopters flying overhead doing everything they can to find any kind of robert. >> has anything like this happened before in the boise area? >> no, as far as i've heard, this is the biggest investigation like this that they've seen in years. >> okay. jen wall, we appreciate it, kbc i-reporting on the disappearance of 8-year-old robert manwill. thanks again for the information. we'll keep everyone posted on this story and we're hoping and praying for a happy ending and this little guy found safe and sound. jen wall again reporting for us. a story we continue to follow for you, brazil in, brazil, there's a family that has custody and there's the pictures here. and the brazilian family has custody of a little guy. they speak little sean goldman. his dad has been trying for years to get him back. the latest coming up.
welcome back. will the nfl reinstate michael vick? he can sign with any team, he can practice now. he can play in the last couple of preseason games. he will be fully reinstated by week six of the regular season, that means a five-game suspension. what do youny? did nfl commissioner roger goodell make the right call on this? call and be heard. the number 1-877-tell-hln. want to hear from you on this story, as well. what is next for sarah palin now that she has resigned governor of alaska? sarah palin gave her last speech yesterday promising to fight harder and got in parting shots on her critics, give it a
listen. >> you're going to see anti-hunting, anti-second amendment circuses from hollywood. and here's how they do it. they use these delicate tiny, very talented celebrity starlets. they use alaska as a fund-raising tool for their anti-second amendment causes. >> there she is, calling out hollywood. let's face it, there's not a lot of middle ground on sarah palin. if you like her, why? if not, why not. call in 1-877-tell-hln. joining me to talk about this, sherry jakobuk, chris welsh from our sister network cnn. chris, you were at her speech yesterday. tell us about the atmosphere. >> you talk about supporters. that's pretty much the large majority of the makeup of that crowd yesterday. vastly a crowd of supporters. and a few, only a few
protesters. you have you see once in awhile quitting her most responsible act. palin free. they're happy but they were in the minority yes. the vast majority loved what they heard, particularly that second amendment line. that was a big applause line. her other big applause line, actually she got a partial standing ovation when she went on another lecture sort of about the media. >> okay. >> and how the media has not been accurate. >> we'll play that in a second. one thing that i think people wonder, whether you're a supporter or not is why she would resign with a year and a half left. she somewhat address that had. let's give that a listen again. this is part of her speech from sunday. >> it is because i love alaska this much, sir, that i feel that it is my duty to avoid the unproductive typical politics as usual lame duck session in one's last year in office. >> okay. again, there's the explanation.
sherry jake bus, is that enough to blunt the attacks that sarah palin quit on her state. >> i think she's going to be fine with that. everybody knows she was thrust into the spotlight a year ago and up against some obstacles that most people don't have to experience. she's become sparter, savier and tougher. we don't blink an eye when somebody quits their post as governor of a state to join a cabinet. we have people that will run for president and keep their seats in the senate. what this says is sort of lets the country know that being a governor is a little bit different than being a senator, and i think unless we get 36 hours in a day, sarah palin just could not do it all with all of these bogus ethics complaints coming her way. it's a different atmosphere than it was a year ago. she's accepted that reality. i think the sky is the limit for her, to be honest. >> i hear you on that. i think there were some unfair attacks along the way.
but if and when she runs again for office, the political ad is going to be that, quitter. that's going to be tough. why didn't she stick out the last year and a half? >> the best comparison is look at somebody who would quit their post as governor to become part of the obama cabinet. we had this in several instances. unless you're somebody who just dislives sarah palin, you're never going to give her a chance, i don't think that quitter thing is going to stick because people understand what she's up against and understand her family situation. we know she has a future in something whether it.politics, media. she's in a very interesting position that a lot of politicians wish they could be in. so in order for her to really have the balance and to do a good job at everything, and i think that her admission she doesn't feel she can dob the job as governor the way she would like to under the current circumstances, i admire her for her honest. if she wants to come to the
lower 48, raise money for the party, have a real say in policy and help shape the debate or if she's going to be a kingmaker in 2012, she's very well positioned to do that. if you look at the polls that have come out, you have mitt romney, and he's neck and neck with barack obama for 2012 in a head to head. sarah palin is only five or six points behind barack obama and that's without trying with all these challenges. this is going to be very interesting. she's definitely someone who watch, and i think the democrats and many republicans are quite threatened by her. >> good point. i think the question when you look at her future, how does she get beyond that 40% that are so enthusiastic about her? she needs to break through that and get that extra 10 to 15%, right? how does she position herself to do that? >> i think we see that already in her messaging. she seems to be leading with her more fiscal conservative smaller government, almost a libertarian bent that's very popular in
alaska and draws in a lot of the independents and moderate democrats. so, we know who she is politically and it's interesting to see what she's leading with. her message when she talked about gun rights, she knows alaska and i think she knows who her her potential audience and potential voters are in a lower 48. that's where this woman is much more savvy than people would like to admit and knows where her votes are going to come from. >> your thoughts on sarah palin, her future. call in 1-877-tell-hln.
welcome back to "prime news." continue our conversation about the future of sarah palin. she has done her team as alaskan governor. clarisa in florida, your thoughts here? hi, mike. my thoughts about sarah palin is she let the people of the state down. when she first gave her speech, she said that she didn't want to be a lame duck governor. however, she didn't have to be. she could have been a very positive influence for the state of alaska. and she chose to quit and take the money and run. >> did you like sarah palin and her resigning disappointed you or have you been anti-sarah palin all along? >> caller: well, to be honest, i don't agree with a lot of the politics.
i think that as far as -- as far as what she is saying, i think she's in another world, mike. she is saying things that really aren't true. >> so you were anti-coming in before the resignation? you weren't a big fan? >> caller: i voted democratic and republican in the past. i look at the parties and what they stand for. >> let's get another call in. thanks. leslie in california, your thoughts here, leslie? hi, mike. i watch you every day. >> thanks. >> caller: i'm a real big fan of subpoe sarah palin i think she's great. i think she's probably a real person. that's how i feel about her and i hope she goes a long way. >> so you connect with sarah palin. >> caller: i do. and i also met a lady that moved here from alaska from wasilla in the grocery store. and they went to the same church.
and that really impressed me. >> leslie, if the connection that sarah palin has made with many. sherry, we heard from two callers. sher have i jacobus with us, republican strategist. one pro, one anti-. sarah palin has been tags with the line she's too polarizing. how does she blunt that? let's face it. if she ever runs for another general election, she is got to get more into the middle, doesn't she, sherry? >> as i mentioned before, we've seen this in the things she's leading with, smaller government, more responsible spending and more responsible government. that's a message with the way things are going with president obama, i think that message for her is going to work quite well. it generally does and something very attractive to independents. that's the real key because they generally decide things in a presidential election. >> chris welch is with us, as well. he was at the speech. you had mentioned sarah palin taking a shot at the media. let's listen to that.
chris, we'll get your response come out. >> you represent what could and should be a respected, honest profession that could and should be a cornerstone of our democracy. democracy depends on you. and that is why, that's why our troops are willing to die for you. so, how about in honor of the american soldier, you quit making things up. >> all right, chris. you had mentioned that sarah palin we know not a good run with the media over the last year. let's face it, on the whole. what is the feeling? you were at the speech. on the whole in alaska, obviously, those who went to the speech are fans. what about statewide? >> it is interesting. most places you know we travel, we walk up to people and ask them random questions about politics all the time. to me at least, to be a little bit tougher to get people to
talk to me when i said i was from cnn. i don't know if that means anything when you only talk to 15 people. >> chris fading in and out on us. >> they were hanging on her every word when she said that. for a lot of people, that was their favorite part of the speech. >> cheri, time's ticking on us. she's going to speak august 8th, the ronald reagan library. what kind of message does she need to bring to the table? we've got about 30 seconds. >> this is an easy one. she can pick up that reagan message which she's already started on and talk about the lower taxes, fiscal responsibility. also let's not forget, she's a military mom. when she talks about military families, she's coming at it from somebody who knows and already in pretty good shape, i think. >> good everything can, chris welch, cheri jacob bus, we're keeping you update on the arrest of professor henry louis gates.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. police in cambridge, massachusetts, just released a 911 phone call that started the entire controversy over professor henry louis gates and his arrest, the professor who accused cops of racial profiling. the sergeant says he was just following protocol ta day. finally we're hearing the audio recordings of how this went down and race was mentioned but now how it's first reported. elaine quijano joins us now from boston. what have you got for news. >> first off the bat, we should mention we did reach out.
cnn did reach out to harvard professor henry louis gates junior for his reaction to the tapes but he declined to comment. on the other hand, cambridge police say these tapes really speak for themselves. >> the 911 call that eventually led to professor henry gates' arrest never mentioned two black men. >> are they still in the house? >> they're still in the house, i believe, yeah. >> and were they white, black or hispanic? >> well, there were two larger men. one looked kind of hispanic but i'm not really sure and the other one entered and i didn't see what he looked like at all. >> reporter: at one point, the caller herself raises the possibility the situation might not be an emergency. >> i don't know if they live there and just had a hard time with their key but i did notice they kind of used their shoulder to try to barge in, and they got in. >> reporter: cambridge police also released audio of the police radio transmissions from that day. the dispatcher can be heard repeating the 911 caller's
description of two suspicious persons or sps. >> both sps are still in the house, unknown on the race. one may be hispanic male. i'm not sure. >> reporter: later, after sergeant james crowley arrived, this. >> i'm up with the gentleman who says he resides here, a little uncooperative. >> then a voice in the background can be heard as sergeant crowley calls in the identification. >> i've got an id of a henry louis gates. >> reporter: now, cambridge police say they're going to be putting together a committee, not to conduct an internal investigation into what happened, but instead, to take a look at what lessons can be learns from the situation. meantime, white house press secretary robert gibbs says he expects that get together that president obama suggested to sit down and talk things over over some beers at the white house, president obama, sergeant crowley and professor gates, robert gibbs says he expects that's going to happen sometime
this week. >> okay. all right. elaine, the way that as you had mentioned, the way it was first reported it sounded like whoever called in said there's two african-american men and that's impression we had. did that make it in the police report? and if so, how? when that's not what went down. >> it's still pretty much an open question. you're right. sergeant crowley in his police report does talk about speaking with the woman who reported seeing two black men with backpacks. but clearly from the 911 call, that's not at all what she said. how did that make it into the police report? what cambridge police are saying is that that report was sort of the compilation of the information gathered over the course of that day, but it still doesn't answer the question, mike, how it came to be that sergeant crowley wrote that down in his report. so, we're continuing to ask the questions, but at the very least now, we have some additional
insight into the actual 911 call itself. >> one more, elaine. you kind of touched on it. there's no investigation but a committee is going to be formed. investigation side of it's done. we're just -- it sounds like the focus is what can we learn from this. is that where they're going? >> yeah, that's exactly right. because what cambridge police have been saying is look, we just really want to move on. we don't believe that sergeant crowley did anything wrong. hence, obviously, they don't feel the need for an investigation. but they also acknowledge that there are some serious issues that were raised by this incident, that there are always obviously some very sensitive issues surrounding law enforcement and minority communities. so they say, look, it's not a bad thing to have ongoing dialogue. we're going to have this panel of experts that we're going to put together to sit down and figure out, you know, how do we move forward as a community from here? >> got you. let's take a call real quick. travis in ohio. your thoughts? >> caller: my thought is i'm concerned about one thing. about the black police officer that spoke and said simply he's
seen them do nothing wrong. but one of the things that you have to pay attention to is that we know about the stockholm syndrome. we know about in order for you to get a job with the police department you have to pass a certain profile. and that police officer passed the profile, has the profile to get the job, has stockholm syndrome. of course he's going to agree with the police officer in order for them not to attack him. as a black man that have been accosted in the same manner that the doctor had, i understand that when i went to court that i had to -- they actually lied, the police officers lied and i'm seeing the same pattern with this police officer in cambridge. >> okay. we're going to continue to follow this. elaine, thanks for the update. when we come back, we're going to speak with wendy murphy, the attorney for lucia whalen. because you stop and thirks as this story took on a life of its own and lucia whalen's the one who made the phone call, as we just heard there, what has she gone through? has she become a target through all this? we want to hear her side of the story as well. call in. 1-877-tell-hln.
this is it. the highly anticipated michael jackson toxicology report expected anytime now. what will it tell us about the demise of the king of pop? plus new reports his mother and his ex-wife, they're very close to striking a deal on the kids. so could it be a breakthrough in the bitter kufrt didispute? and right now the search for an 8-year-old boy. he was last seen at his apartment playground. now cops are frantic, draining a pond. the fbi's involved. where is little robert man will? call in, 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us. cnn.com/primenews. or you can text us, hlntv, start
your message with the word prime. >> controversy, opinion, your point of view. this is "prime news." welcome. this is hour number two of "prime news." i'm mike galanos. those stories in a minute. first this, though. new details just coming in on michael vick's return to the nfl. he is all clear to play this fall. but there are some strings attached. nfl commissioner roger goodell laid out some of those conditions just a few minutes ago in new york. >> as you know, he can sign now with an nfl team. he can practice without delay with an nfl team. he may play in the final two preseason games of this preseason. and once the regular season starts, he can practice if the team so chooses. and i will decide within those six weeks, within the first six weeks of the regular season, whether -- when and whether he will be reinstated to play from there. >> okay. the commissioner going to keep a close eye on him. another part of the deal is -- or part of what's being called a transition plan, former nfl coach tony dungy will serve as
his mentor. great pick there. one of the great men in football. so the next big hurdle for vick, will any nfl team be willing to pick him up? joining me now to talk about this, sports radio talk show host arty spannier. also with us, michael markarian, an executive vice president at the humane society. we'll talk to him about whether any deal is in the works with michael vick to tie his career to long-lasting work with the humane society. real quick, i want to get from both of you, and arnie, i'll start with you, did the commissioner get this one right? >> no, not really. a little bit. they got him in right away, and i'm okay with that. let him practice, let him get in the preseason. what i'm not okay with is he'll let you decide within the first six weeks when he's going to be allowed back. because he's judge, jury, and executioner. he's been punished enough. we took $130 million from this guy. we put him in leavenworth prison. we put him in home confinement. we took everything away from him. and rightfully, a lot of it was deserved. enough is enough. this guy deserves to make a living. this is what he does, mike.
>> but don't you think, arnie, any missteps and michael vick will forgo the opportunity? isn't that what the commissioner's saying here? >> that's fine, he can say that, but don't tell me anytime between now and six weeks. what, if you're in a good mood in the middle of of september you'll reinstate him? we want to know now. leave everybody in limbo that's unfair to him. >> michael markarian in on this. michael, do you agree with the commissioner? are you wokay with michael vick playing in the nfl again? >> well, mike, the humane society of the united states has not taken a position on whether michael vick should be reinstated. that's up to the commissioner. we have taken a position that dogfighting is a terrible bus, and we want to remain focused on the bigger picture. we want to put a stop to this animal abuse, and we want to give michael vick an opportunity to show whether he's serious about being part of the solution instead of part of the problem. >> michael, do you have -- because i agree. and i've been familiar with your position through wayne with the
humane society, that michael vick's career should be tied to real impactful long-term work with the humane society. have you talked to michael vick? do you have something in place? because as wayne says it's about boots on the ground. you know, when michael vick comes off the field, then talk to should kids, get into some communities where some dogfighting might still be going on. is anything in the works at all, michael? >> it's absolutely right. the humane society of the united states has grassroots programs in chicago and atlanta. we want to expand it to other cities. where we go to inner cities, we talk to young kids on the streets, we work with ex-dogfighters who have great credibility. we have pit bull training classes. we teach them that dogs should be friends, not fighters. and we've talked to michael vick, and we have let him know that we have these opportunities, that if he wants to plug in, if he wants to go around the country and do some real boots on the ground work, he'll be able to demonstrate to society, to the commissioner, and to others that he's serious about making a difference. >> has he said yes? >> he says that he wants to make a long-term commitment to these
programs. and we're now working out the details for what cities and what timeline. >> okay. hopefully, you guys can work that out. let's get a couple calls in. ann in florida joins us now. hey, ann, you why thoughts? >> caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. i've been waiting for this to happen. i watch a lot of tv. i see congressmen not pay taxes, cheat on their wives, and still be elected. but you know what? this man has no soul. i'm sorry. it's been in him for many years. and just this 23 months, whatever, is not going to change him. >> you don't think he deserves a second chance, ann? >> caller: i do not. i do not. >> okay. >> caller: i believe in justice. and i think, you know, after he makes all his money again he'll go back and be the same type of person. >> well, personally i don't believe that he's going to reoffend in this area. and hopefully he'll use his platform in the nfl when he plays to forward a cause with the humane society and make some change and eradicate dogfighting once and for all.
hopefully something good can come out of it. let's get debbie in on it. debbie's with you us from washington. your thoughts? >> caller: i personally feel michael vick as a pro football player is a role model for a lot of young kids. >> yeah. >> caller: and i won't allow my children to attend any of his games. if he's in our area. i really feel that what he has committed is pretty unforgivable, to dot things to an animal that he's done. and i don't believe he should even be playing football anymore. >> wow. >> caller: i'm not saying he shouldn't be allowed to work. but i don't really feel like he should be an individual that i would want my children to look -- >> debbie, don't you think, though -- or i'll ask you this. that michael vick plays football, he'll have a platform. if he can talk to kids about mistakes. if he can talk and bring a message with the humane society to eradicate dogfighting, don't you think that would be a good thing? >> caller: i think it would be a good thing, actually. but you know, how much of it is going to be true? because someone that can commit the kind of crime that he committed, people that love animals, it's just -- it's
inhumane. and i just don't feel that he would be able to go out there and express a real true feeling of saying he's sorry. >> okay. a couple of fans there that basically they're not forgiving mike vick at this point. we'll continue our conversation about michael vick. he's been reinstated. what team will take him? we'll talk about that, take more of your calls. 1-877-tell-hln.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. i'm sure this isn't going to surprise you. the octomom show, it's a go. yeah. reality show involving nadya suleman and her 14 kids. she's worked out a deal so the kids are going to get the money out of this. but i think if you compute it out, i'm no math whiz, but it's
about 18 grand per kid. is that enough to put them under the microscope? reality tv's disaster for families. we know that. we'll take your calls on this one a little bit later. 1-877-tell-hln. and we'll continue to take your calls on this story. michael vick reinstated by the nfl. any team can sign him. he'll be eligible to practice immediately, play in the last couple of preseason games, and then serve a five-game suspension and be ready for game 6 of the nfl season. let's get to the phones. cheryl in georgia's with us. cheryl, your thoughts? >> caller: yes. >> hey, go ahead, cheryl. >> caller: hello. >> hi, you're up. >> caller: i feel like michael vick has served his punishment and he should be reinstated. >> okay. >> caller: and people should forgive because all of us makes mistakes and god forgive us. and if we don't forgive god's not going to forgive them. >> all right. a message of forgiveness from cheryl after a couple of callers basically were not going to forgive michael vick. let's bring back arnie spannier,
sports radio talk show host. from folks you talk, to are fans forgiving, they're ready to see michael vick back in the nfl? >> no, for the most part they're not. they're not forgiving. it's interesting because i know you asked one of your callsers wouldn't it be better if we got the bigger message out? no, no, it would be nice but let's not have mike vick work. did michael vick commit murder? is he a pedophile? is he a rapist? did he do anything like that? of course not. look, i have a dog. i have a golden retriever. so i'm not making any excuses for him. but like i said, we've punished him enough.@@ enough is enough. when you come out of jail, we're supposed to rehabilitate you. that's what's going on here. let's rehabilitate him and moving move him on. if he was a cpa, nobody would say anything. the fact that he's a football player we don't want him to make millions of dollars? that's ridiculous. >> and he'll have a platform to bring we hope a positive message, and he can still talk to kids about mistakes you've made. >> exactly. >> that's a pretty good learning experience right there. arnie, let me stay with you. what team is going to take him on and the pr baggage that comes with him? >> you know, that's why i was
hoping that he'd get reinstated right away and you don't have this one to six-week opening. but i'm hoping the arizona cardinals. if you look at it here, we need someone to run the wildcat offense. we're kind of a soft media market where people don't get crazy about it. and plus we've got a lot of snowbirds here. they're fans of other teams as well as the cardinals. so i think he'd be a perfect fit here, and i think he'd work out, and i think people would actually enjoy him a little bit here, more so than some of the major media markets like in new york or philly. >> interesting. but there's been no official real hard-line reporting on any team that's like knocking on his door yet. >> every time i bring up the cardinals, they don't say absolutely not. so until they say absolutely not -- kurt warner is about as righteous as they come, and he's for having mike vick come back and so is larry fitzgerald. those two guys want him back actually no problem. >> let's get another call in. linda in massachusetts. hi, linda, your thoughts here. >> caller: yes, i'm here. >> hi, linda. go ahead. you're on. >> caller: yes, hello. >> hi, linda, you're on. go ahead.
>> caller: yes. i believe that michael vick should not be reinstated. i think he's an immoral, unethical man. i don't know how old he is, but he certainly should know better than pitting poor helpless animals against each other. you know, he's a disgusting individual. >> and what he did was reprehensible and disgusting. so linda, you don't forgive him? >> caller: no, i don't. and i don't think he's a role model for our young people. okay? >> he was. he was. let's put it that way. i think kids would listen to him. if he's back in the nfl and his story could be a powerful one, both in a positive and a negative, i want to bring back michael markarian with the humane society. michael, you've talked about possibly working with michael vick. what could he -- what would you want him to say to get the message across? and obviously the end goal is we want to eradicate dogfighting. >> well, we want to see him do some real boots on the ground
work. we want him to travel around the country, talk to kids directly, tell them about the mistakes that he made. you know, he told our president that he got involved in dogfighting when he was 8-year-old. and maybe if a michael vick had talked to him at a young age he wouldn't have gone down that path. so you know, we were tougher on michael vick than anybody else. you know, we urged his prosecution. we urged the nfl to suspend him. we urged nike and other sponsors to drop him. but two years later, you know, what are we about? and we believe at the humane society of the united states we're not just about endless punitive treatment, we're about lifting people up and making them better. and we believe that michael vick can make a difference if he's serious and if he demonstrates a long-term commitment. >> let's hope he is. we've got to leave it there, guys. michael markarian, artie spanier, great conversation. you the viewers as well.
you're a huge part of the show. we love hearing from you. give us a call. the number 1-877-tell-hln. shoot us an e-mail. here's the website. cnn.com/primenews. or text messages. hlntv. the number's 45688. all you have to do, start your message with the word "prime." and here's a new way to join the conversation, become a fan of "prime news" on facebook. we'll give you the behind-the-scenes stuff with me, richelle, the "prime news" team, how we put things together, what we're working on. angles we're taking. want to hear from you. become a fan of "prime news" on facebook. for more info on that go to cnn.com/primenews. now this story. and right now hundreds of people are frantically searching for an 8-year-old boy in boise, idaho. this little guy, you're going to see his shot here, van frshd a playground near his family's apartment on friday. now police are pleading with the public for tips. the fbi's been brought in. we want to know where is little robert manwill? joining me to talk about it, jen
wal, reporter for our affiliate in boise. give us the latest on the search. what do we know? >> boise police have expanded the search beyond robert manwill's neighborhood to canals and fields. as of this morning they say they still have no credible leads. >> okay. no credible leads. is this an amber alert yet or not? and if not, why not? >> boise police say they did submit paperwork to issue an amber alert as soon as they learned that robert went missing. state officials told me that because it is not considered an abduction his disappearance does not meet all the criteria to issue an amber alert. state officials said that. >> is there any indication there is or was an abduction? jen. >> police say not at this time. >> okay. where was he last seen? jen. >> robert was last seen at his apartment here in boise. a family member -- a non-family member saw him around 9:30 p.m. friday night. he was with his stepdad, his mom, and he disappeared shortly
after that. >> where was he at 9:30? was he out and about? was he -- where'd they see him? >> they say they saw him leaving his apartment. >> okay. now, we've heard reports that he wanted to go to a party and -- is that factual? that -- that's why he would leave, to go to some party at 9:00, 9:30 at night? >> police were reporting that earlier this weekend. as of now i believe they're saying that is not true anymore. >> okay. so that's something that could not be verified. is his family talking? and if so, what are they saying at this point? >> i've been talking with robert's dad, charles manwill, all weekend. but today he did tell me that police did ask him not to speak anymore, just for the security of the case. they have appointed the family aunt to be the official spokesperson for the family now. >> jen, what did he tell you over the weekend in what kind of
information was he giving you? >> obviously, he's very concerned about the whereabouts of his son. he says he's a typical 8-year-old little boy. he only weighs 50 pounds. he loves annoying his sisters, playing outside. he's very friendly. and right now, you know, he's just very, very concerned and says it's not like his son robert to disappear. >> so he's not a kid known for getting in trouble and running off, things like that? >> didn't sound like that. sounds like he's a good kid. >> what about community reaction? what are folks saying? >> well, boise is an amazing community. people are just very worried. all weekend people have been driving up in their cars, just asking what can i do, where can i go. neighborhoods are passing out flyers. hundreds of people. >> what is next in this investigation? what are authorities telling you? >> authorities say they're just going to keep searching. the fbi is now involved. and they're just -- police, detectives, and volunteers are just looking everywhere they can
look. there's helicopters flying overhead. they're doing everything they can to try to find any sign of robert. >> has anything like this happened before in the boise area? >> as far as i've heard, this is the biggest investigation like this that they've seen in years. >> okay. well, jen wahl, we appreciate it. jen wahl, reporter kbci, reporting on the disappearance of 8-year-old robert manwill. jen, thanks for the information. we'll keep everyone posted on this story, and we're hoping and pray fing for a happy ending. want to follow up on this story. in brazil there's a family that has custody. and there's the pictures here. and the brazilian family has custody of a little guy. they speak. little sean goldman, his dad has been trying for years to get him back. we'll give you the latest on that, coming up.
welcome back. new reports just coming in on that ugly fight over michael jackson's kids. well, could be all over soon. we've talked about it for weeks. those rumors jackson's family may offer 4 million bucks to jackson's ex-wife, debbie rowe. well, now we're learning that all of a sudden everyone's happy. no money in the deal. what? this is michael jackson. his fortune. his kids. and money is not a part of this deal? i'm a little skeptical. joining me to talk about this, kim serafin, senior editor "in touch weekly." also with us, family law attorney vicki zeigler. all right, ladies, before we go any further want to listen to katherine jackson's attorneys, one of them, anyway, today on "the today show," talking about basically everyone's working together. >> we have been working on an
agreement, and i want to say that the parties have been very responsible. debbie rowe, her lawyers, mrs. jackson. they've been very thoughtful, very caring, and very prudent. and we do believe that we're close to reaching an agreement. and the swirling speculation is just swirling speculation. the agreement about custody is not a money issue. michael and mrs. debbie rowe had their agreement prior to his passing. that is not on the table. that's not what we're dealing with in this fight, despite lot of the public kind of inquiries. that is not what's happening. >> kim serafin, are you buying that? no money involved here? what's your takeaway? >> you would initially think that money would be involved after all the speculation. however, when debbie rowe's lawyer was fighting back at that $4 million claim he had reached he was very specific about saying it had nothing to do with money. now we have katherine's lawyer saying it has nothing to do with money. they're both being very specific it doesn't have anything to do with any sort of additional settlement other than what
debbie rowe and michael had prior to his death. so maybe this is about visitation. maybe this is about who else will take care of the kids. maybe if she wants a role in the lives of the kids. >> okay. let me bring in our attorney, vicki zeigler. vicki, as you listen to that, was there any wiggle room where could you slide some money in or was it pretty cut and dried, no money involved? >> i'm shocked, mike. i can't believe that there's not going to be money exchanged in this deal. i mean, it smells of a rat. but in any event, of course, there's always ways. i think her attorney said to the "post" that this is not about child support, it's about spousal support. however, debbie rowe got a reported $8.5 million settlement when the parties divorced in 1999. so i don't even know why spousal support would even be raised in this custody debate. so yes, absolutely. and i think what's happening here is perhaps they want to keep debbie rowe from speaking to the public, so perhaps in this global settlement perhaps she'll exercise her parenting rights, perhaps she won't. it strikes me as strange because she really hasn't over the last several years.
but maybe in michael's demise and passing she feels a need to somehow be reintroduced to the children. i just find it hard to believe. there's really -- something isn't right. >> right. exactly. and you have a better line on it being a lawyer than i do. but just something doesn't seem right there. well, let's talk -- debbie rowe, obviously biological mom of the first two. so she's got some say, i'd imagine, vicky. but a lot of people, and i'll go back to it, can she legally cash in again? you've already mentioned some of the money she's already received through all this. >> listen, she actually can. i mean, you really can't barter for children. they're not property. they're individuals. they're humans. but at the end of the day certainly she's got a payday to go away. she abrogated her rights. they were reinstated by the supreme court. so she certainly can say listen, i'll never exercise my parental rights, i'll never give them away like my attorney said, but i won't exercise them, i won't try to see the children. but you know what, cash up, give me some money, he's worth a lot of money and i did this for michael, as she previously testified in court. so yeah, absolutely there's room. there's always room for a money
deal. >> yeah, i'm sure. kim, when we talk about a deal, and the way londell mcmill milan's talking about, it could be close. what is it looking like? what are we talking about here? >> well, again, they've delayed this hearing a couple of times already. so it seems like they really are working together. most people said debbie rowe could make a claim, she could come out very forcefully. but anytime something emerges, whether it's a money deal or there's reports that e-mails from a friend were saying negative things about her. she's really pushed back hard. so it really does seem like maybe there's one facet in the michael jackson issue -- there's going to be lots of fighting over the estate, fighting over new recordings or unreleased recordings, lots of fighting, especially as more comes out about dr. conrad murray. maybe this is the one time where they really do care about the welfare of the kids. and i really hope that's the case. do i think there's a little more money in place? i think everyone really does care about the kids. >> let's hope so. speak of the kids-r we laying out in this deal who's going to
take care of the kids? we're under the impression katherine jackson, who's 79, is going to be the main guardian. but what about rebbie or janet? are we hashing that out as well, do you think? >> it's interesting because the lawyer was asked about janet's involvement because that's been widely reported. i know sources told in touch michael wanted janet to play a role. possibly rebbie. definitely you see these kids have a relationship with the extended jackson family. you saw that at the memorial. and again, katherine jackson is almost 80 years old. so it would be a great thing to get some of the extended family and maybe that's part of what these discussions with debbie rowe have been about as well. >> when we come back, we'll ask our attorney vicki zeigler how does a court sift through all that? younger relatives like janet, rebbie, will they have a say-so in this, will they be part of the kids' lives in if so how much? we'll talk toxicology. could be coming out any day now.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. keeping you posted on the fallout after the arrest of professor henry louis gates. you're going to hear the 911 call made by a neighbor. hear what she told police. and yes, race was mentioned. but not how you think. we'll take your calls. president obama also inviting both professor gates, sergeant crowley together for a beer at the white house. what do you want to see come out of that? call in. 1-877-tell-hln is the number. all right. back to michael jackson. custody is an issue. really a lot of different facets
we're talking about here. also toxicology report that could come down any day. we have our experts standing by, would like to take your calls. let's go to the phones. chantal in texas. chantal, your thoughts here. >> caller: yes. i just feel that debbie rowe shouldn't have a right to the kids because she gave them up in the beginning for money and in spite of all we think about the jacksons' family they still appear to be a close-knit family, and these kids have adjusted to them, and i don't think that they should be removed from their families. >> okay. thanks for the call. vicki. and our callers keep coming back to that, debbie rowe. i mean, how long will she have a say-so -- i mean, yes, she's biological mom, but she seemed to have given up a lot of what she has to say in involvement in their lives through the years, just shows up, cashes in, leaves, cashes in. i mean, that's the way we're seeing it. what is legally going on here, vicki? >> it definitely does appear that way. what's happening is here she
doesn't have custodial rights any longer, just parental rights, which means she can exercise visitation with the children. whether it's supervise or not i don't know. we don't know yet. but what's happening is when the children are emancipated in cal, it could be 18 or when they go to a four-year college education, that debbie rowe could visit with these children. i don't know if terms of what extent she can discuss the education, welfare, and health of the children and what input she has. it seems like she has little or none. but she still has those parental rights. a judge can terminate those rights. but at this point no judge has done that yet. so that's why she has the say. >> got you. makes sense. what about real quick, stay with you, vicki, who makes the call about the involvement or how involved they'll be in raising the kids? is that something katherine -- she'll be the main guardian, michael's mom. does she make the call? does a court step in? >> if there's a package custody deal right now i think what they'd be doing is saying
katherine would be the main guardian and if something were to happen to her, she became ill, there would be a second guardian, perhaps one of the aunts in the michael jackson family. they could still raise them, they could be there and don't have to be specifically designated, but you actually need a secondary to make sure somebody's taking care of the children's welfare, going to school, making sure their needs are taken care of. i think that's what's going to happen if they do stretch and get a custody deal. if they don't they'll have to go to court and request a forensic expert take the testimony and determine who is really going to be the best custodian of the children. >> and kim, what it seems like all sides agree, they don't want joe jackson involved in raising the kids. is that right? >> that definitely does seem to be the case, that he would not be involved. again, he was left out of michael's will. clearly there was not a good relationship between michael and joe. and clearly joe lives in las vegas. he does not live with katherine. so he would not be and should not be involved. even when he was on larry king talking about whether there were reports that the jackson three would be touring as a group, he stayed far, far away from that issue, even said i think
something to larry i'm not going to go there, i know what you're trying to get me to do. maybe he's been lectured don't talk about the kids, your involvement with the kids, because that would probably be a bad thing to say that he would be involved. >> let's get another call in, guys. josephine in florida. josephine, your comment or question here? >> caller: yes. was the dna done to prove whether debbie rowe is the biological mother? the children doesn't look anything like her and we don't know if michael just used her as a surrogate. >> kim-s th, is that one on thee at all? the question whether or not she's biological mom. >> i don't think so. i mean, i'm not a legal expert. but i believe she, because her name is on the birth certificate, she is the mother of these two kids. but again, that's of prince and paris, not of blanket. so that's another issue, that they don't want to split up these three kids, and the fact is these three kids have each other right now, the three kids have their relationship with the jackson family, and i think all of that goes into play. even though debbie rowe apparently has said initially she would take on blanket too.
that doesn't seem to be the case anymore because they're working out a deal. but yeah, the three kids staying -- keeping them together is very important. >> go ahead, vickky. >> a quick dna test will prove if she's the biological mother of the two oldest children. i don't think that's being contested at this point. we heard rumors perhaps she was a surrogate but i don't hear that to be true any longer. >> kim, we mentioned toxicology. give us the latest. is it any day now? >> it looks like that, yeah. it was about a week and a half ago that they said two weeks. so we're expecting it very soon. probably at this point they know exactly what the issue is, they're just waiting for a final detail, they want to make sure they have everything together. and the fact is this is such a high-profile case they want to make sure they have all the specific details and of course as rumors are now swirling about dr. conrad murray they want to make sure they're dotting every i, crossing every t, and making sure they have all the information. but yeah, we can expect that any day right now. >> ladies, thank you so much. kim serafin, vikki ziegler.
hi. you knew this was coming. octomo octomom, nadia suleman, signed up her 14 kids for a reality show. their contract worth 250 grand all told. at least so far. yes, she needs money to raise the kids, but come on, reality shows equal disaster for families. is it really worth it? call and be heard.xu the number 1-877-tell-hln. joining me now to talk about this, jane velez-mitchell, my colleague, friend, host of "issues with jane velez-mitchell" coming your way top of the hour.
also your way kim serafin, senior editor for "in touch weekly." all right, jane, as i stated just a second ago, yeah-w 14 kids you need some money. but it's disaster for families. we've seen it. you want the kids in the fishbowl like this? i don't think so. your thoughts? >> some money? $250 a day? that's not a lot of money by hollywood standards. >> no. 18 grand each. >> 18 dwrant won't even pay probably for one year tuition of college by the time -- it won't even pay for it today practically. so 18 grand per kid? i think to subject them to all of this for that paltry payoff is unconscionable. i know she has tried in her defense, and i'm actually going to say something in octomom's defense, this is a real shocker. but in her defense i think, as her lawyer mentioned, she was trying to come up with something less intrusive than some of the other reality shows, i think you know which one we're talking about. and so the shooting schedule is supposedly 36 days of shooting the first year, 21 days the second year, and 14 days the
third. and that is quite modest. i think that 14 days a year is not going to destroy a child. so if they adhere to that schedule i do have to hand it to her for that. and in fairness i think that's probably better than a lot of the other shows. >> yeah, i'll give it that. but it sooemd seems like it's open-ended that there could be more shooting days. we'll see how it plays out. let's bring in kim serafin. what do we know? who's producing this? is it going to be shown in the u.s.? europe? what are the details so far? >> well, it's being produced by iworks, which is a european company. they've done shows like "biggest loser" but also like "breaking bonaduce." i think they'll obviously do a good job. and as jane pointed out, the kids are only going to be filmed for 71 days overt course of three years. it is definitely something more of a documentary series. there was a long time many months ago when she kept denying no, i'm not doing a reality show even though in touch was reporting it, you guy were
reporting it, everybody was reporting she was doing a reality show, she kept denying it. and then it turned out she's going to do more of a documentary, just highlighting bigger events in their life. so that's why it is a little bit better shooting schedule. we also know that 15% has been set aside in these contracts that the kids will not be able to touch until they're 18 or until they're legally emancipated. also there probably is more money to come. we haven't even talked about endorsement deals. are there going to be octuplet diapers -- >> that's a great point. how much money's going to mnady in this deal? >> we don't know. it's not mentioned in the documents we saw. she could be making hijack payout while the kids work for peanuts. >> let's get a quick call in. betty in washington wants to weigh in. hey, betty, your thoughts here. >> caller: hi. my opinion on this is that if she does this it's going to make everyone else do that. i don't think it's -- they've
got to find other way to help her with the babies. >> i'm just skeptical that it's going to stick with this 71 days of shooting. i i think it's going to be a lot more when it's said and done and the documentary. and i hope so for the kids' sake. really i do. go ahead, jane. >> mike, you know we're in television, you say you're going to shoot for an hour, you end up shooting for four hours. i don't think they're going to get what they want to get with this very limited shooting schedule. and i think they're going to probably have to expand it. and maybe there are clauses there that say they can expand it. so we don't know what we're really getting in all of this. >> kim, let's delve in a little further. do we know anything about a format? you're talking more highlights of big events, documentary style as opposed to just moment by moment reality. do we know anything else? >> that is -- a few months ago or a couple months ago that is what her lawyer had said, it would be more of a documentary style. that is sort of what they were saying, it wasn't going to be a day-to-day thing like we see with "jon & kate plus eight," for example, where they're having a lot of problems right now, ironically. >> yeah. >> so they seem to be wanting to
do just kind of highlighting big events in the kids' lives, not doing everyday cameras there all the time, because they don't want to get into trouble. and you know, with this new agreement that the court papers were filed on friday, they do still have to get a judge's approval. but i'm sure it will happen. >> jane-b 30 seconds before we let you go and then we'll be watching "issues" a little later. what about the reality just destroys families that we've seen? and we always advise against it. go ahead. >> because it's not real. it's a false reality. it's a self-conscious reality that's totally ego-based. so instead of a spontaneous interaction between a parent and a child, what you have is acting. so a child is deprived of the most important thing of all, which is intimacy with the parents and something real. >> well put, jane. "issues" with jane coming up at the top of the hour. more with kim and i and your calls, 1-877-tell-hln.